Timing Belt complications

I've just replaced the timing belt on my 1998 Plymouth Breeze and within 500 km.s I beleive that I've lost the head gasket.

My wife was driving it and it started to overheat. She pulled over (great) and when I got to the car I checked the oil it was over full and didn't really look like oil.

The rad overflow "coolant" didn't look much like coolant.

If my suspicions are correct and the mechanic made a mistake and did something to the engine when working on my belt, I would try and get the shop to come good for it.

But I need to know if it is possible>

Some help would be greatly appreciated.

Rond

Rond, welcome to the forum I hope you will like it here.

Our car experts here, Hobbist and S.W. will probably (hopefully) react to your question with professional advice, but I think that it is probably a synchronizing mistake made while installing the timing belt.

A timing belt needs to synchronize the camshaft to the crankshaft position in order for the valves to open and close at the proper time in relation to the position of the pistons and if this is not done properly could result in many problems.

Hobbist? S.W.? What do you say?

Greetings Rond, welcome to the Forum !

I agree, this may be a Head Gasket problem, but I don't think the two are directly related, just a happenstance.

But I do see where you're going here! Maybe you should take the venicle to another Shop, and just have them comment on the cause of the "new" problem!

It would be very difficult to objectivally direct "blame" in instances like this.

Have a good Day !
S.W.

Post edited by: SWHouston, at: 2008/09/03 04:51

I second SW's findings.

Thanks guys / gals. Now the real issue arises. The car is worth maybe 2K and the repairs one way or the other will be at least 25% of the value of the car.

I think that we will do the work and then drive the car till it drops. Right now with the way it isn't running, don't think we would get much more than scrap money for it.

Will let you know how things go.

Ron

WOW JMB !, we finally agreed on something !
That's progress !

Have a good Day !
S.W.

Post edited by: SWHouston, at: 2008/09/03 05:36

Sandmanron395 wrote:

I beleive that I've lost the head gasket.

it started to overheat.
the oil it was over full and didn't really look like oil.
The rad overflow "coolant" didn't look much like coolant.

If my suspicions are correct and the mechanic made a mistake and did something to the engine when working on my belt, I would try and get the shop to come good for it.

But I need to know if it is possible>

If there was some easy way to ruin a head gasket without causing other damage or evidence that this was intentional, I'd think the two events were possibly connected, but even if they are connected, what you know or suspect and what you can prove are two different things.

I think the money you spent on this head gasket is a "sunk cost." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
As such it shouldn't influence future decisions about this car.

Sorry.

Re: the 25%, there is a mathematical way to determine when to replace things like this but I can't post a spreadsheet.

Greetings TGuy, and welcome to the Forum (again)

A very interesting article, thanks for the Link.

Have a good Day !
S.W.

What I would do with 500k km is a whole engine swap if I were to do the investment repair.

It wouldn't make much sense to do only the head gasket at this point with 312k miles on it. If the body or frame is rusted out and it might not pass inspection over the next few years then forget it and swap cars.

That car is worth around $300 alone because of the recent high metal prices, even for just scrap.

Hi

Will talk to mechanic tomorrow to see if a rebuilt engine is available. Makes sense to go with a rebuilt engine swap as hours are probably the same expecially if planning the head is required.

Ron

And if something got warped you are going to swap the core

What's that Scotty, something to do with the Dilithium Crystals?

I finally got a chance to talk to the mechanic and it seems that the "water pump" is what he figures has gone. The sad part is that it is located behind the timing belt and so here we go again. I'm not jaded and I think it was just a coincidence.

However, what is the chance that when changing the timing belt, a shared shaft that runs the water pump was abused?

Anyways. A water pump is better than a head gasket.

Will keep you aprised.

Ron

ps need to clean the cooling system as I don't think it was ever done. Not in the 3 years that I have had it.

On my '94 Honda Civic I was supposed to replace the water pump because it was inside the same housing as the belt, but I didn't because I got tired of working on the belt.
And, my labor is free.

Sandman if you have oil in the coolant and/or coolant in the oil and your mechanic is recommending a water pump change it's time to change your mechanic.

Yes, I was aware that the coolant is the way to the heart of the engine. I saw the coolant and it wasn't oily, only cruddy.

When they removed the water pump it was leaking but the proof will be in the pudding when I get it back tomorrow.

Will advise.

Ron

Sand man Ron,

Not sure if you resolved your timing belt problem or not. One simple thing anyone can check is the color marks placed on the timing belt from the factory. If the mechanic installed the timing belt wrong the dots on the cam shaft and crankshaft dots won't line up with the color dots on the belt.
One word of wisdom ! Always change the water pump, crankshaft and cam shaft seals, and idler pully bearning when changing most timing belts. all it takes is the water pump or idle bearning to fail and your in trouble.
Water in oil turns milky when small amount are introuduced, pull the draig plug and the water if in large amounts will come out first.
I use helm publications service manuels when working on my own car. (same one the dealer uses.)

Capt. -dRE'

Well the car is back and running well. I trust the mechanic / owner and hope that it was just a bad set of coincidences.

What is the general thought about timing belts? The garages want you to do them sooner than later but several people that I hae talked to would after similar circumstances wait and take their chances.

My 1989 Isuzu Trooper went in for a timing belt and I ended up unloading it later as the GM dealer told me that there was 3/8" run-out on the crank!

Shouldn't run but there was no problems. Possible thrust bearing gone. Living in Thunder Bay, ON, couldn't take a chance of breaking down at -40 in the middle of no where.

I'll certainly think twice about doing it again.

Thanks to all.

Ron

If you have an "interference engine" you should be pretty risk-averse about a timing belt/chain breaking.
Otherwise, it's just getting towed and then a new belt/chain.

Thanks

I never knew about the "interference engine". Makes sense when you see it that way.

Ron